Platos Kave

So.. rattling that cage huh? 

J(, kudos to you.

Said I was going to ask a few questions/comments to Plato and Mic, but have decided to just let sleeping dogs lie. J) you sound like me more all the time. When something doesn’t make sense, you shoot the arrow right through it. It all sounds good on paper until one applies it personally, and then, somehow the two never match up. Although the cult says, like this email I got the other day, quoting Nis: That which makes you think you are human is not human. It is a dimensionless point of consciousness, a conscious nothing; all you can say about yourself is 'I am.' You are pure being-awareness-bliss. To realize that is the end of seeking. You come to it when you see all you think yourself to be as mere imagination and stand aloof in pure awareness….

When I asked the writer if this is what he realizes, his reply was,  “years ago, I said humbly”.
It’s always humble, years ago, which is why he doesn’t quote himself.

Well I would just say that I appreciate your willingness to just talk about your experience honestly without a bunch of pretense. I am always interested in talking with people and hearing about their experiences but I have to speak up when I sense dishonesty.

I think a lot of what jeds talks about is valuable as well as a lot of other things you learn about yourself and reality if you're of that exploritory nature but I just find it weird that people come in here, regurgitate something they read in a book and go cold when you talk to them or ask them to think for themselves. Ask some one how they feel about being themselves and they just bug out. It's weird and boring. But yes can't really say I have much use for anything that doesn't line up here in the real world. Never been a big fan of fiction although it can be entertaining.

PS you do remind me of someone. Doesn't matter.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nice that your little girl is exploring other things, your heart must swell with so much love for her. I think it’s really hard being a husband, parent, holding down a job, and finding time to explore yourself.

Honesty is really big for me too. And what Jed talks about most certainly gave me pause for thought, and as you say it’s his thoughts not ours. Sure I can understand if one realizes the same thing that he or Nis or any of the others go on about. The dishes still need to be done and the floor swept. The child still needs to be brought up, and when a friend, child or parent we love dies, the grief can almost kill us. My sister’s son, died just over a year ago, to this day she doesn’t know if it was murder or suicide. His note to her the day before, was full of excited plans on what he was going to do for Christmas. That just makes my heart break.

 Still think that Plato’s intention was for like minded so I don’t think he appreciates me or maybe even you, for disturbing the nest. He was very tolerant in letting me ask a zillion questions and I really appreciate he gave me the venue and all his and everyone else’s who took the time to patiently explain over and over. At the end of the day, I still don’t get it. Hence why waste anyone’s time. And I’m tired of it all right now. Reality to me just means whatever comes into my sphere, so many things come out of left field, others I create, others appear to be created for me. I see more clearly where I have hurt others, others have hurt me, where I have been wrong about so many things. I have always wanted to know what is the truth, but I’m not so sure I’ll ever know.

A friend who writes a lot better than I do, reads the Kave, summarized what you are all saying as follows, does it basically encapsulate what you are all getting at?

The same force that automatically digests our food and beats our hearts, runs our entire lives, with zero input from us. And because it’s the same for everyone, no one is responsible for anything, nor is there any such thing as cause and effect. Whatever compelled people to get the vax, compelled you and I not to get it. End of story. Except we keep the story going by spending years “bitching” about it and trying to find and assign fault and blame. Apparently we should have just accepted it and moved on without another thought. We have no agency over anything except to accept what is.

**J)’s response does include for agency.

I have opinions on all the BS going on in the world, so does my girlfriend of 10 years, the difference between us is that she thinks she is right about her opinions and gets frustrated/angry when she senses mine don't align with hers. I get a kick out of this because it is a reminder that in my little world here, I am the only person I know that doesn't believe his/her own thoughts... about anything.

She gets angry about it and I don't, I understand why she thinks the way she does, she has hard fought for beliefs about things like "Black lives matter" and "being kind to everyone especially seemingly marginalized groups" and "how big of an a$$hole Trump is" whereas I dropped all my hard won beliefs 10 years back and have been just cleaning up any left over beliefs or belief systems and chucking them overboard ever since. This doesn't mean I don't make choices in life, just that I question my reasons for even having an opinion before I make a decision, that process gets me closer to what feels like an honest expression than any other process I've found.

Consequently, the "proof is in the pudding" so to speak, the life I've been engaged in over the last 10 years is nothing like the previous 54, I love this life, and desperately wanted to end the other one... "look ma, no hands!" 

Said I was going to ask a few questions/comments to Plato and Mic, but have decided to just let sleeping dogs lie. J) you sound like me more all the time. When something doesn’t make sense, you shoot the arrow right through it. It all sounds good on paper until one applies it personally, and then, somehow the two never match up. Although the cult says, like this email I got the other day, quoting Nis: That which makes you think you are human is not human. It is a dimensionless point of consciousness, a conscious nothing; all you can say about yourself is 'I am.' You are pure being-awareness-bliss. To realize that is the end of seeking. You come to it when you see all you think yourself to be as mere imagination and stand aloof in pure awareness….

When I asked the writer if this is what he realizes, his reply was,  “years ago, I said humbly”.
It’s always humble, years ago, which is why he doesn’t quote himself.

I don't feel very welcomed. I thought this was a forum in the spirit of Jed McKenna, but I guess I was wrong.

Well sh*t. Tried to talk to you as straight as possible. Opened up to you personally. Even sang you a song but you prefer Jed stuff. I don't often "feel very welcomed" in general but I don't really let that be dependent on other people.. I kinda be confident in my own being and presence. You should try it.

If all else fails the n just fall back on this...

If... (as Jed and a well known nursery rhyme says) Life is but a dream
And... Everything in a dream is not real
Then... Life is not real

That means: every thing in life is not real, including "the world" and "you" and "me" and whatever we do to each other or ourselves or the environment or whatever. "Accepting what is", to me, simply means that you accept that it is all a dream, an illusion, and it therefore does not matter enough to upset you. You do not get angry, because it's not really real. This, to me, is all "accepting what is" means: you do not take things personally and it cannot effect your inner peace.